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Ok, it won big at the Golden Globes and it is making at ton of money, but isn't anybody a bit disturbed about the success of a movie that propagates such an anti-human perspective?
I like a good story and all, but I also am a fan of humanity. If I see a movie and it's aliens vs. humans, I'm rooting for the humans. Sorry, that's just the policy of Libertas et Memoria. If the movie is humans vs. apes, I'm rooting for the humans. Nothing against apes, but I'm going to root for the humans. Now, if the movie was apes vs. aliens, I'm going to root for the apes. My default position, in the absence of humans, is to root for the Earth-team. So, if we ever see the movie Dolphin vs. Predator, I'm cheering for the dolphin. But if it's humans vs. aliens, I'm cheering on the humans. What about humans vs. orcs, you say? I'm on the side of the humans. And that goes for wood elves, replicants, Cyclons, whatever. If it's somebody else vs. humanity, I want the humans to win.
Flipper vs. Gilligan? I say: Gilligan omnia vincit!
73 comments:
Anthropogenicist! Or something like that...
The problem with this formulation occurs when directors such as Cameron deploy so many hoary stereotypes in characterization that the aliens are more "human" than the humans.
Personally, I'm sitting this one out.
Exactly. You're rooting for a race/species based on who they are, not on how they act (or are portrayed). Not exactly a smart move, IMHO.
Flipper vs. Gilligan? I think self-preservation there says I have to choose Flipper. In the case of a shipwreck, Flipper would save my life and give me a ride back home. Gilligan would CAUSE the shipwreck and maroon me on an island for a decade.
Letting Gilligan drown is also good for humanity in another way. As I saw on a T-shirt once: "Stupid people shouldn't breed." Sooner or later Mary Anne is gonna hear her biological clock ticking, and that island's gonna get overrun with a bunch of IQ 90 brats causing even more trouble.
I'm with you. I always think of venison medallions in dried cherry sauce during Bambi.
Cameron goes to the same damn well every time - the Avatar greedy corporation might as well have been called Weyland Yutani. Or Cyberdyne Systems. It's the same EVERY time with this clown. Evil corporations, disposable military grunts...
I can't really agree with this point of view. While of course if all sides are equal I'm going to root for the home team, humans are not perfect creatures, and have been known (gasp) to be capable of great acts of evil. For instance, if a movie featured Vulcans v. Nazis, I'm going with the Vulcans, even if they are aliens.
It's just a surrogate for the US against, well, just about anyone else. Just another reason I don't go to see modern movies. If he were still alive, John Wayne wouldn't be able to buy a role in a current movie. He was to pro America for a jerk off like Cameron.
Ooops, can I say jerk off like Cameron?
Yeah, especially when the humans are Marines.
Funny post. I saw the movie and hated it. But you have to admit that there COULD be a good movie made about a GROUP of humans that is being nasty to an innocent alien civilization. E.g., imagine the French colonizing an exoplanet. But in general yes your bias towards humans makes sense
This argument would necessitate that you'd have to cheer for Captain Ahab against Moby Dick. Is Ahab really the hero of that tale?
When Buck, in Call of the Wild, finds that Yeehat Indians (humans) have killed his friends, and slaughters them, do you cheer for the Yeehat indians, or for the humans?
This is not to say that Avatar is as good as Moby Dick or Call of the Wild, but only to suggest that much great human literature has made us see the evil in men, and sometimes cheer for "the other side."
There may be reasons for condemning Avatar, but this is not one of them.
Did you cheer for Michael Vick?
I agree with your sentiments. Furthermore, note that in Avatar the human condition is so repulsive, and the alien condition so attractive, the main characters actually desire to become and do *become* alien. In a way, Avatar is a fable about the Garden of Eden, and reclamation of innocence. But it is still annoying, anti-human, and cliche-ridden.
I read where the substance they are in Pandora to steal is called "Unobtanium". Did Oakley get a cut on this? They have been using this term for the "grippy when wet" rubber nosepieces on their sunglasses for well over a decade. I always thought the term was one of those intentionally ridiculous sounding quasi-scientific terms.
Ya, I'm sick of "we're the bad guys". The relentless media guilt trips are unbearable.
Cameron has disdain for the evils of capitalism, but of course it's capitalism that allows him to cruise around the globe in his own personal submarine like Captain Nemo, for chrissake.
Someone said: It's the same EVERY time with this clown. Evil corporations, disposable military grunts...
And don't forget about the rich literally drowning the poor in Titanic. This guy's self-loathing is legendary.
"Unobtanium" is a sneer used by print SF fans to diss careless or slipshod authors; an alternate is "handwavium". Print SF has gone through a revolution, largely mediated by a fellow called John Campbell in the Sixties, that requires, at minimum, nods to plausibility in the science presented. This contrasts with "Golden Age" SF, which was chock full of implausibility, some of it fairly stupid.
Film SF is still in the Golden Age; that's why a couple of ounces of "fluid" can propel a starship the size of Johannesburg (District 9), and similar howlers are normal fare. It amuses me that Avatar would use "unobtainium" with, apparently, no intended irony.
Regards,
Ric
So you were rooting against E.T. getting home?
Dumb policy. It's fiction.
If Cameron had any balls at all, the Na'vi would have been trying to attract foreign investors, only to have a fruity branch of humans to appear and hose it up, bitching about exploitation and ruining the natural habitat, and then disappear, leaving the Na'vi to die from natural disasters and starvation...
So Mark forgot to specify 'humans v aliens _in an existential contest_' which is implied to be the case in Avatar ("back to their dying planet")
If the question is whether or not your race survives, you are simply stuck being on 'your' side, regardless how ugly its warts.
On another note, the worst thing about 'unobtainium' is the lack of a media reaction. Apparently the population is illiterate enough that most people didn't notice.
The Human vs. Alien debate is complicated by the fact that I assume many of these aliens would turn out to be quite tasty if properly prepared and cooked.
This was not an existential crisis, Anon. If it were, you can be sure that the fate of humanity wouldn't be put into the hands of a corporation employing ex-marines. Lol.
Ok, for those who did see the movie, can I ask one question? When watching the previews, I did notice the TribalTard(tm) ear hoops, but wasn't paying enough attention to notice if the aliens also had tramp stamps as well? The ear hoops are a good start, but they're never going to get that off-world dishwashing job without the tramp stamp...
In a real science fiction movie, a cloud of UAVs would descend on the place and liquify the entire smurf population before lunchtime.
Oh well, you can't have a light without a dark to stick it in, as Arlo Guthrie once said, so we should be thankful to John Cam-moron for providing us with a new floor for measuring just how bad a sci-fi movie can be.
When the humans in question in a fictional story are obviously evil and stupid, maybe there is something we should do besides 'cheer' for them. Maybe we should cheer for them to get a brain.
My favorite part are the mercenary ground troops going to fight in the jungle on a planet without a breathable atmosphere and with teeming hordes of alien life known to take bites out of you for just wandering by.... in bare arms. In fact, with their short sleeves rolled up to show their tense biceps.
I was cheering for them to get bitten by alien insects and come down with alien malaria, but we didn't have that kind of time.
"So you were rooting against E.T. getting home?"
I was rooting for that silly movie to be done with.
So yeah. F*ck E.T.
I'll probably wait for Avatar to show up on HBO. And I can't think of anything more insulting than that.
What if it's King Kong vs. Michael Moore? I'm rooting for the ape there.
What if it was apes against democrats?
When so many Americans are quite happy to "root for" jihadis over American troops, the leap to do the same for aliens over humans is a small one.
"Avatar" actually ends with: ""...andthe next day the sky people began bombing from orbit, and didn't stop until we were all exerminated."
I remember my father used to have the same policy wrt sports... always root for the Americans. Ultimately, it was John MceEroe's horrible behavior on the court vs. Bjorn Borg that changed his mind on his policy.
We've got a monopoly on humanity, but given another intelligent species I assume you wouldn't just pass by on the other side of the road if you see a gang of humans kicking the crap out of one of "them." -- shoot, we put humans in jail for treating dogs badly, are you against that?
Oops... McEnroe, of course... not MceEroe :)
As a pro-American libertarian and James Cameron fan who could not bring himself to vote for either Obama or McCain and is not a fan of the greenies, I must point out that you have created a false dichotomy, Mark, that I think Cameron would argue with:
This is not a human v. alien movie that Cameron has created. He is repeating a theme he has used before:
It's a human (whatever the appearance) v. machine (even in a human body) movie.
The hero is a human who starts out with a machine-like attitude (do what the colonel and business people say). While in the "alien body" he becomes human and heroic going up against the machine-like nature of the people ruthlessly appropriating the planet's resources.
And really, when you think of the premise of the movie...humans on the planet Pandora...who really constitutes the "aliens"?
Speaking of King Kong, what's the policy of this blog on giant mutated monsters?
@Bob_r: You should post that recipe. Sounds like it'd work good with pork, too. I don't own a long gun so Bambi (and his tasty loins) are off the table, so to speak.
You guys are missing what's important: All the potential movies plots that have been discussed here.
Nazis vs. Vulcans. I would totally go see that.
Apes vs. Aliens?
Dolphins vs. Predator?
King Kong vs. Michael Moore?
Genius. Stand by, I'ma go write a 50 page treatment. My people will call your people.
For a real sci-fi film without howlers watch "Moon". That utilizes a REAL element Helium-3.
I figured that out from the trailers and decided not to waste my money on that slimeball
"When the humans in question in a fictional story are obviously evil and stupid, maybe there is something we should do besides 'cheer' for them. Maybe we should cheer for them to get a brain."
Or cheer for the scriptwriters to get a brain. Whether it's smurfs or Ewoks, if the only way for them to win is for the writer to write the high-tech, military-trained, star-faring troops as incomparably stupid, it's bad writing.
I have to admit that I didn't really care about the underlying "moral" of the story, it was all about the graphics. Also, I think you should still be able to enjoy a movie/book even if you don't agree with the morals, for instance I enjoy CS Lewis.
"For a real sci-fi film without howlers watch 'Moon'. That utilizes a REAL element Helium-3."
I'll echo that. Moon is fantastic. It still has the corporation-vs.-innocents theme (what can you expect from David Bowie's son as director/screenwriter and Sting's wife as producer?); but the corporation is a long way from stupid. But for one unforeseeable mishap, the protagonist would've never stumbled on their game.
In a truly just world, Moon would be up for the Oscar this year (along with the star, Sam Rockwell), and Avatar would be seen as the simplistic popcorn-fest it is. Give Avatar all the technical Oscars you like; but story wise, it's at the intersection of Trite Street and Cliche Avenue.
I take it that this game is entirely unacceptable?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroy_All_Humans!
:P
Andy, make sure to leave out Gozilla vs. Bambi... it's been done. :)
What about humans vs. the Monolith? No extraterrestrial box is gonna tell me I can't land on Europa.
"I'm rooting for the humans."
Sadly, this is the rationalization for genocides such as the holocaust, the extermination of native Americans, ect.
Did anyone figure out what the locals ate? I mean they have shoes and belts and they subjigate the animals to their desires. Sounds like humans to me. Never once did the dishonest Cameron show any form of brutality by the Avatars towards the wild life that they live among. As for the Marine general he would have been committed a long time before he got to that base. It is reminisent of Alien and how the "Company" didn't care about anything but money. Hollywood sucks.
Sheldon Cooper would agree with you.
They aren't "Marines", they are EX-Marines; Mercenaries. I'm just sayin.
AND the "good" humans don't agree with the mercenaries. It's not humans against aliens, it's senseless killing against doing what's right.
As a teenager I had friends who used to shoot anything that moves because it's "cool" to watch things die. I shot animals for food. Not because it's "cool".
Me, I'm going to the hot babes. Even if they're blue.
Wasn't Cameron the guy who gave us "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure"? From that to *SPOILER ALERT* "lets slowly creep up on them in the biggest slowest damn ship we have through prime ambush territory" is a hell of a decline.
Also, I found it hard not to root for the humans in this film. Not because I want to see the planet destroyed and what not. I respect the environment far too much to want that even in fiction. But the farce level treatment of the "humans bad. machines bad. Noble savage." tropes were just that repulsive.
The whole point of the movie, I thought, was that the Navi were more humane then the humans, who had been turned into unsympathetic bastards. So if you don't care about the characteristics of the characters in the movie, but rather what someone looks like despite their intelligence and core values, well go root for the bastards, but if you root for bastards you're a bastard.
how about aliens v. Jeffrey Dahmer?
and if the navi were sitting on enough floaty rocks so that cancer could finally be cured, guns and roses would be reunited, and all the lost puppies in the world would find their way back home... isn't that a good enough reason to scramble their eggs?
some of you morons act like we can just do without floaty rocks.
Vampires vs werewolves?
Great comments thus far. This is the largest comment thread by far I've ever gotten here on the blog -- the Instalanche at work! I obviously can't respond to all of the comments, but I did want to say that one of the things that is surprising me is how anti-human some of the comments are. Particularly within the context of the movie Avatar, when the movie is dealing with the survival of the human race...Interesting...
Uh...we aren't really in touch with our blue collar shop floor roots here are we? "Unobtainium" has been in the vernacular for decades. It is the ultimate, super mil spec, nasa grade, over the top, choice of material with which to make some exquisite part or device with. A typical example in a sentence;
Yeah, those valve spring were made out a solid unobaintium etc. etc. etc.
In the real world unobtanium is found on race cars, aeronautics, and home improvement projects crafted by guys who work on exotic government hardware.
I wholeheartedly agree regarding Gilligan v. Flipper. Flipper delenda est!
And Vampires vs. Werewolves? I would have rooted for the vamps back in the days before they became glittery lovesick emo cretins. But now...
This is a great thread! I really like all the additional levels of unobtanium meanings! Especial the most recent above about shop floor talk. Which if attach with another question earlier about Oakley making money on the rights shows you where they got the idea for the word. I always thought the use of such a word had to be tongue in cheek.
More importantly and unmentioned anywhere I have read on the net. Is the meaning of the beginning of the movie. When the camera stares at something in movies it means something even when unintentional. Why do we stare at a burning box for so long? Why does it seem normal to have a funeral of one person plus job headhunters? During the incineration (not a funeral) they are giving the pitch for the job? Really? This has to be intentional. Does anyone know if the director is Catholic?
Oh I meant to say in the unobtanium portion before that it could work on more than the obvious level, hard to get. It could also mean really over the top and unnecessary for the job upgrades, baubles, etc, as was implied earlier. Then it makes the whole mission to a far off planet about making pointlessly unnecessary industrial kitchens that go unused by a two person household who eat out...... or some other Modern overkill.
They're not really aliens.
They're hippies.
Big, blue, 1960s hippies.
No one seems to be willing to discuss the important implication of this film. If we were able to travel to another planet and found blue creatures there, what would they taste like? Would it be like blueberries because they are blue, or chicken because they are animals?
Someone needs to make an interplanetary ship soon so we can put the matter to rest.
Several of the comments are saying that within the context of the movie, we should be cheering against the humans. Taken to the extreme (not much of a distance), this means that we should be cheering againt Blacks in Birth of a Nation and against the Jews in Nazi films.
[Pet peeve: why all of the "Anonymous?" Is it so hard to choose a name, any name?]
"What if it's King Kong vs. Michael Moore? I'm rooting for the ape there."
Sorry, I'm still not clear which one of the two you're rooting for.
Tiffany, one is a gigantic, slobbering beast with little semblance of rational thought, while the other is just a big monkey being exploited by others to gain power.
Damn, that didn't help as much as I thought it would.
Is rooting for fictional human villains the same thing as rooting for real-life human villains, as some commenters suggest? Even when the former are intended to slander non-villainous activity (Iraq War II)?
I think that is the equivalent of an American saying something like: 'In any conflict between Americans and Vietnamese, I would always root for the Americans.' Even if we were napalming the Vietnamese? If humans were slaughtering an intelligent alien species, and the aliens fought back, ethically I think you should support the aliens (and any humans helping them). Well, right now most humans are launching a full frontal assualt against other animals on earth, and you are really rooting for us humans to 'win'? Come on, we need to move beyond such narrow-mindedness and speciesism. Go watch The Cove, and tell me that you are rooting for the Japanese fishermen against the dolphins they are slaughtering ... That would be pretty heartless.
I found your blog on Google and read a few of your other posts. I just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to reading more from you in the future.
thanks
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